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TOPIC: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion!

F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5081

I've just been given a box of bits to play with. I was about to bin it when I noticed "Tamiya" markings on some of the bits, so I decided to see if I could find out what they were or rather what they originally belonged to, as the car appeared to be a "bitza" that someone had put together from spare bits of hacked about Tandy stuff. Turns out it's an F2 chassis & it's supposed to be like that... I have to say I made a better job of scratch building toy cars at 14 than this! Ahem, anyway, I've decided it's too far gone to restore & I'm toying with the idea of doing a retro/mod/special 1/12 pan/stock/banger car (Not sure which yet) making good & keeping the Tamiya bits & making the rest up as I go. 1 of the bits that's missing is the differential ring gear & its 2x integral bevel gears (The shaft bevels are still present). Undecided whether to try to source the proper gear, or make up a suitable ball diff for it. By my calculations, I reckon the gear should be 0.6mod x 67 teeth - does anyone know if this is right? Furthermore, does anyone know if the diff gear from other models eg celica, countach etc would fit? Turning my attention to the other end of the axle, how's the right wheel driven? Friction? Is the round bush & washer arrangement supposed to be some sort of limited slip thingy? If it is, then surely when the shaft turns in the wheel, the wheelnut would come undone? Anybody else think this is odd?

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Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5196

Man, those older manuals show only the most basic info. :(
Don't think I can provide much insight myself...

My estimate would be that the right wheel is supposed to be fixated like that but it is an odd setup indeed.
Can't imagine that working as limited slip very well.
Don't recommend driving a lot in reverse in any case. :S

Since it might become a modded car, my idea would be to see if I could make it compatible with Group C parts.
These are easily available but it might be a bit of a stretch.

Sorry I can't give more clarity.
Hopefully one of the other members has built this car before and has some knowhow...


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Last edit: by Edou.

Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5200

Thanks for your input. It's forward with slippage that's going to be the problem though - if the shaft spins forward faster than the wheel, it will effectively unscrew itself out of the wheelnut (Which is being held by friction to the plastic wheel). Obviously 1-flat undone would be enough to cause a problem... I'll probably make up a grubscrewed hex collar to replace C2/C3 to address that. Replacing/making the diff ring gear's gonna be more awkward though - turns out that 67t is a non-preferred size, so I won't be able to just buy a blank & modify it (Was gonna make a new one using TL01 diff guts). I've got the stuff for cutting gears, but it's incredibly tedious, especially in the freezing cold shed!

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Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5208

eddrick wrote: if the shaft spins forward faster than the wheel, it will effectively unscrew itself out of the wheelnut

I try to make a mental picture of this... :pinch:
But doesn't it actually tighten when going forward and loosen in reverse?
The grub screw sounds like a good plan in any case...

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Last edit: by Edou.

Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5211

Nope. Picture a nut & bolt. Looking at the nut, which way does it unscrew? Still looking at the nut, which way do you have to turn the bolt to unscrew it out of the back of the nut? (Whilst holding the nut stationary). If your nut is then "stuck" to the left hand wheel of the car & your bolt is the shaft, imagine what happens if you apply forward(Clockwise) torque to the shaft (Bolt) if the wheel (Nut) is stuck to the road. What's really confused me about this one is they've actually machined the shaft to a smaller diameter where C3 sits, so they've put extra effort in to make it that way on purpose, ie it's not a cost-saving exercise. Leaving the shaft alone & using a duplicate of C6 (LHS) would have been cheaper & have the same effect. It's almost like they planned to put something special there (As a hop-up?) & C3 is just there to fill the gap until you buy the hop-up

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Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5216

eddrick wrote: If your nut is then "stuck" to the left hand wheel of the car & your bolt is the shaft

But the wheel is on the right side... :huh:


Too bad there's no real spare parts or hop up list...
Maybe the intricateness you described has something to do with the optional 540 gear case. :unsure:

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Last edit: by Edou.

Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5218

Yep, exactly as your red marked pic. Ignore my left/right, it's the reason I end up in the river instead of through my front door when leaving the pub... My theory on the shaft relief is maybe they originally intended to fit a 1-way needle bearing there (To allow the differential action) & use a plain spur gear instead of the geared diff. Or perhaps it was intended to have a ball diff & the shaft was originally the other way around? (I won't say left side/ right side as I clearly don't have a clue which is which!) The High-lift hilux is full of funnies like that, almost like it had been bodged to get it out before a deadline! You could almost build another car with the amount of spare parts left over! Just noticed the 2x G4 washers - suggests they don't want the wheel frictionally stuck to the shaft - takes you back to the LSD theory?

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Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5219

Those all sound like very valid theories.
Tamiya has been undecisive at least because at some point they switched the whole setup to the other side.
Like on the F101s and Group Cs - without going into if that's left or right. :lol:
And a new mental picture needed here if one would then need to change the motor polarity because of that.
With which I will not bother you. ;)
But they thought of much better solutions at a later point than what they did on the 58013.

Another flip flop - note that in the last picture I mirrored the original imagine so the motor is always on the same side.
They did a double here there. With the shock as well as the manual.



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Last edit: by Edou.

Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5224

Eddrick, could you make a picture? :P
We are in to this togheter mate!! :lol:
Everything can be fixed, so can this one, are you sure this is a F1 of later F2 Tamiya Formula 1 car, really customised? there are like 3 different kind of gear/spurs and 2 axles on the earlier tamiya's. i will take a closer look at my collected ''tamiya literature'' :P

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Re: F2 58013 chassis causing dazed confusion! 7 years 10 months ago #5226

Edou, that's interesting what you say about motor polarity etc - won't be a problem for people running modifieds with adjustable endbells (Can be tuned in either direction) but it'll be a nuisance for people running stock motors, they'll all be going quicker in reverse! OR maybe there was originally this problem & Tamiya have done this to address it (Haven't looked to see which way is "Forward" for a stock tuned motor).
Achmedachmed, yep I'll try & remember to do you a dimensioned drawing when I machine up the grubscrewed hex adaptor, you may need to poke me occasionally to remind me... Alternatively, if you can lay your hands on a spare hex adaptor from the diff end, you could probably fit a brass or steel "liner" tube so it fits on the smaller diameter of the shaft, then drill & tap it for a grubscrew (Again ,I haven't looked into whether or not this would work). It's definately 1 of 3 of the F2s, 58013, 58014 or 58018. Had a look at the spare part listings here & the part numbers for the diff for these is different to the celica. I reckon mine should be a 67t x 0.6M, but I'm not 100% sure. I've been looking at Kamtec ABS 1/12 banger shells - might go for a capri, cavalier, charger or P4 rover or a legend shell, may even end up with an F1 stock car shell! Just watched Mad Max 2 again, & that really isn't helping the decision!

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