TOPIC:

Thanks for all the replys guys much appreciated

I thought some pics would help explain

(hope this works as it is my fiirst time inserting images)

Managed to get the rear tailgate off with much flexing





The grill is is much more delicate and precious, I might have to cut away the radiator from the inside to get the winch off, and leave the grill on the body






I can replace the radiator with a re re if it gets damaged in the process

Terragni

Whoops, I forgot the radiator covers the screws for the winch

But still, the radiator is so much tougher than the spindly vertical bits on the grille, if those are intact I wouldn't want to risk breaking them.

HI!... What about heating up a very sharp narrow hobby knife and very carefully separating the parts? Just a thought.

I'm thinking the glue bond between grille & main body is only a narrow one & a bit of careful flexing should separate the two items fairly easily as they're not a great fit & the bonding is likely to be fairly weak.
Once you have the grille/radiator/winch lump separate, you should be able to see where/how the radiator has been glued to the grille - all around or just the 2x side lugs.
If it were me I'd try cutting the side lugs off the radiator in-situ (These are likely to be the main strongly glued bits, if that makes sense) & hopefully then some more gentle flexing will have the radiator separated from the grille, which will expose the winch screws.
Another option for just removing the winch would be to pop a couple of holes through the back of the radiator, in line with the winch screws, to pass a screwdriver through. The holes shouldn't be visible from the front as they would be low down behind the solid part of the grille.
By the look of the other parts, I'd say the glue bonds won't be that strong anyway, the joints don't look to me like they were done particularly well

The glue looks like some kind of Cyan acrylat (white and crystaline and it doesnt like warm and moist) try putting the body in hot water and start low 40/50degrees and slowly up the temp a bit bit I would think not more then 80deg. (that should be no problem for the ABS) try to get some very thin blade between the parts and slowly work your way around the side lugs.

otherswise best thing to do as you have a mint and original grill (thats like finding a diamond in your rear garden) leave it alone and try to restore/paint it as it is

Thanks for all the advice guys

Jonny, yes those bars are intact and are my main concern

Waterbok, I will try your idea of hot water first
Just worried about warping the grill bars

If it is CA, maight try my debonder on a hidden area
Any experience with CA debonder and ABS plastic anyone ?

Eddrick, yes it is just the lugs that are glued fast
I can run a blade between the radiator and grill
I think this will be my last resrt, cutting those lugs off

The joints are messy, but stubborn

With a bit of luck, use of hot water will make breaking the bars less likely.
Downside is it will soften whatever glue it is to some extent & you'll lose the option to crack/fracture the joints. Decisions decisions....

Cutting the lugs off (& leaving them there) wouldn't be all bad - you have to put the (lug-less) grille back on at some point anyway, it just means you'd have to glue at the radiator edges rather than relying on the lugs/spigots. If done neatly enough, you'd probably never see where they'd been cut once it's all back together.

Does it say on the bottle what's in the debonder? - they usually recommend acetone, xylene or cellulose thinners (Or hot soapy water, funnily enough) for de-sticking human appendages, but any strong solvent like this will melt ABS

eddrick wrote:

With a bit of luck, use of hot water will make breaking the bars less likely.
Downside is it will soften whatever glue it is to some extent & you'll lose the option to crack/fracture the joints. Decisions decisions....

Cutting the lugs off (& leaving them there) wouldn't be all bad - you have to put the (lug-less) grille back on at some point anyway, it just means you'd have to glue at the radiator edges rather than relying on the lugs/spigots. If done neatly enough, you'd probably never see where they'd been cut once it's all back together.

Does it say on the bottle what's in the debonder? - they usually recommend acetone, xylene or cellulose thinners (Or hot soapy water, funnily enough) for de-sticking human appendages, but any strong solvent like this will melt ABS

Eddrick

You are right softening the joints with boiling may work against me with fracturing the joints (my only sucess thus far)

Here is a pick of the debonder



It only lists acetone as an ingredient (I know that melts ABS)

I agree cuting the lugs may be the go, I can grind / sand back the lugs at the back of the grill and glue a new re re radiator on (looks the same to me)

Why they made the re re radiaor is a mystery as the re re grill has the radiator moulded behind it ?

Thanks again

Terragni

terragni wrote:

Why they made the re re radiaor is a mystery as the re re grill has the radiator moulded behind it ?

they did that on purpose, so you can use the rere radiator after you cut of the lugs.



the rad is on a different parts tree as the new grill.

They haven't remade the mould, only modified it - you can still see the original M38 mounting holes on the re-re window. This is because injection moulding tools are hugely expensive (Like 20-30k for a very simple mould). It's cheaper to dig new holes in them than completely replace them.
Have a look at my M38 resto, I played a similar mix-n-match with body parts on that, including making a new grille.

Well, there's 2-off lugs, you could always try just soaking one of them in hot water to see if it might work on them? The heat expansion might even break the joint inside the lugs? Nothing stopping you cutting after if it doesn't work....