TOPIC:

I drive a 2006 VW Passat Tdi Estate and while it is a nice car - fast, economical, comfortable - I have to wonder why they make modern cars so complicated and therefore impossible to fix.
I bought this car as I had been very pleased with my 2003 (B5 model) Passat which covered 150,000 miles in 5 years without any problems. That car was well designed and built, seemingly regardless of cost. The B6 model, well, isn't. I think the bean counters have got involved and quality has suffered. Also, nearly everything in the car is controlled by electronic modules and software, which means if anything goes wrong, it costs a fortune to fix (why can I buy a PC for £300, but a module to control the left-hand squizzle widget on a car costs £1000?).
A case in point is the handbrake (parking brake) - on most cars, this is operated by a simple lever and cable. On the B6 Passat, it is electrical - operated by a button on the dash and a cheap motor and plastic gearbox on the brake caliper. (Electronic Parking Brake = EPB)
I bought this Passat from a friend of mine who is obsessive about maintenance of his cars. It was 2 years old and had about 25k miles on it. He said "It's OK, it has had a new EPB button fitted under warranty as they are known to fail".
About 6 months later, I went out one morning and tried to release the EPB to be greeted by loud "bonging" from the dash and "EPB fault - consult owner's manual" and a stranded car. I consulted the Owner's Manual which, helpfully, advised me to contact my VW dealer.
I called the RAC who came and did some series of moves involving disconnecting the battery and pressing buttons to reset the EPB control unit.
A few days later, the same thing happened, so I called the RAC again and this time I watched what he did.
I took the car to the VW dealer and they offered to "diagnose" the problem (ie. plug their computer in and read the screen), but would charge me £60 for the priviledge since the car was now out of warranty . The diagnosis - a faulty switch. A software "upgrade" (read bug-fix) was also needed. After a great deal of arguing, I reluctantly agreed to a reduced "goodwill" price of £90 to cover replacement of the switch (with a redesigned one), software and the diagnosis charge.
Still fuming from paying to fix a design fault and wanting to experiment a bit with Social Networking marketing, I set up a Facebook group to "share information" (moan) about the stupid EPB on the late model Passats. This group now has over 400 members
Members of the group also informed me that the plastic housing around the EPB motor and gearbox tends to crack, whick leads to water and crap getting in and eventually seizing it up.
All was well for a couple of years until this week when I started getting EPB faults again. I strongly suspect it is the motors failing.

There is an interesting article on how the Passat EPB works here.

Hehehe "modern" cars fitted with electronics can be a pain in the ... Especially when the frustration kicks in that you can't do anything about it yourself...
I used to drive cars like my old Nissan, for which all the things could be fixed by myself if i got the defect parts from the junkyard.
Now i drive a Volvo V50 from 2007 and it's a great car (so far ), i have owned it for 4 years now and nothing got mangled up or busted!! Great!!! But i do recognize the story because the car forums are flooded with them.

Cheers, Bram

The last car I had where everything could be fixed at home was a mk.2 Cavalier ... I had that for about 7 years as it was a comparitvely good car for the time, but in that time, as well as all the routine stuff you'd expect the to need doing, it had to have a new floor, new wheelarches, waterpump, top end rebuild to replace failed valve stem oil seals (it smoked like a 2 stroke at one point), multiple carburettor rebuilds, multiple failures of rollbar drop links, multiple brake cylinder rebuilds, multiple door locks (due to the easy break in design - bang a screwdriver in, twist & pull so the clip holding it in pings off, pull & door is unlocked - took less than 2 seconds to do), annual exhausts & handbrake cables, etc etc.

Cars now are so much safer, secure, economical, quiet, comfortable, reliable, less enviromentally damaging etc etc I know I'd never realistically want to go back - when it's minus 10 outside with 6" of snow on the ground I know a modern car is going to be ready to go within a couple of minutes with a clear windscreen & mirrors, & a nice warm seat ... although every time I get a bill I do look back nostalgically about how much cheaper fixes & routine stuff used to be - latest one was 250 GBP for a pair of "cheap" tyres)

TBH if the EPB is the only boneheaed design misfeature on your car then you're doing really well - most cars have some really expensive issue on them (don't get me started on Dual Mass Flywheels)

Hi,

Well as i'm working in the car branch i know exactly what you guys are talking about.

There some design/conception issues on many brands.

Martin compared a car ECU (electronic control module) with a cheap laptop/PC you can buy now a days for very low money. Well a ECU is designed to resist on vibrations,humidity teperature fluctuations and many other influences that a normal PC don't have to. Anyway, the prices of those ECU are still way too high if the end customer has pay for it, assuming it's out of warranty.

Of course older cars don't have that many ECU's as modern ones, those cars where cheaper and much more environmentally damaging as the modern cars are.

I've made my whole carreer in car branch, worked for 4 manufacturer and saw many differences between those 4 brands. 2 of them were European brands and 2 of them Japanese ones.
I must say that the European ones were on a higher level than the japanese ones speaking in terms of on board electronic devices...CAN-Bus communications etc.

Keep in mind that all the brands have Standards that all the brand dealers have to fullfill, in terms of training, garage equippment, special tools and so on...therefore the labour hours fee tend to rise.

Comming back to Martin's issue with his EPB..if that's the only issue u had with your Passat then keep your car ! I know many VW customer's that would be happy with your problem.

The brand im working for now has an excellent reputation concerning the reliabilty and honestly speaking i've been working for this brand for now 10 years in the aftzer-sales dept. and having a faulty ECU is an exception !
I could discuss about this subject for hours, giving you lot's of examples from different brands, European and Japanese ones, but i have to agree with all of you : Fixing a modern car is "badword" expensive if it's not under warranty.

Other subject: Dual mass flywheels I know that.... OMG this is a very expensive part...good luck if you have to replace it at your costs JR !

Jonny wrote:

TBH if the EPB is the only boneheaed design misfeature on your car then you're doing really well - most cars have some really expensive issue on them (don't get me started on Dual Mass Flywheels)

Dual Mass flywheel failure is another common problem on Passats - Not mine though...yet. Apparently you can retrofit a solid one.
My car has not been too bad compared to some others. In addition to normal servicing, so far it has only needed a new rear wheel bearing, inlet manifold and turbocharger (another common problem apparently, thankfully carried out under warranty) and two EPB switches.

Other problems I have heard of on these are:
Injector failure (subject to a recall "customer satisfaction program" after VOSA forced VW to act)
Oil pump failure - apparently the design of the drive shaft is marginal and rounds off, leading to catastophic engine damage. It's a hex shaft in a round hole with little "nicks" to hold the corners of the shaft. Penny pinching pure and simple on such a vital part of the engine.
Steering column lock failure - prevents you from starting the car
Door lock failure - can sometimes be fixed by giving the door a bloody good slam

There have also been reports of the EPB releasing itself while parked. An obvious safety issue.

I don't expect a car never to break down (although, these days, it should be "almost never" if it is well maintained), but I don't expect a major engine component like a turbocharger to fail after less than 35k miles.
I would also like VW to 'fess up and admit that there was a problem with the EPBs on early Passats (they changed the design in 2007, although I have heard of newer ones failing).
VW is supposed to be a "premium" brand and trades on their reputation for reliability - "If only everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen"

TBH I don't expect any of you to be able to do anything, or even be interested - I just wanted to have a rant...

@Manotas - This isn't the BBC - you can mention brand names

I drive an 84 VW Polo for my to work and back drive has hardly any electronics on it at all most advanced thing on it is the warning lights all dizzying new fangled LED's

Only problem i have is the occasional contact breaker gapping which takes about twenty minutes other than that its 100% reliable and is made like a tank (i think its made from recycled heinkel bombers from world war 2)

oh and i also get classic insurance fully comp for £170 a year a great tight a**e's car

I can never get my head around people talking about how much better modern cars are for the environment, driving the kids 250 metres to school, then sitting outside the gates with the engine running to keep the aircon cool, with the window down nattering to your mates for half an hour....
The same people that have to own dishwashers to clean their plates & cups, computers to talk to eachother & listen to music, watch TV etc, a selection of different TV receptor boxes & a huge TV that just gets left on for background noise during the day then only ever swutched off to standby...
Probably the same people who insisted lead was removed from petrol cos "lead is poisonous", in favour of more benzine (Carcinogenic) so we could have "Safer" unleaded fuel (...to burn sitting outside the school etc)

Sick of the modern world & all the unreliable unfixable throwaway consumer-friendly rubbish, & being forced to use stuff that the uninformed think is better.

Modern cars suck, they're no better or environmentally friendy than those from the 80s people are just led to believe they are. The only change is we're using this stuff less carefully cos we THINK it's better, & causing more of a problem

Martin, I was working for CITROEN before I broke my back. I was chief of a "atelier" and I had same problem on C4 PICASSO. Now I work for RENAULT in the electrical vehicles. (ZOE). All manufacturers want to use low cost materials and developed softs and systems in the shorters times.
I drive a C4 VTS. Any modern cars are poor quality.
Sincerly, if you want a real quality car, buy a japanese car with a japanese motor...

Here here Stingray!
Downside to Japanese is body-rot, but at least you know you'll be getting wet feet long before you have to push it or remortgage your house to sort the electrics!

Actually, I don't advice to buy a nuclear car...
I would like to drive a TWIZZY but the only matter is that I live in the 9th floor ...